Trouble - They Found Out About Dripping

This is part of an newsletter email:
Q: Do the words used to describe vaping alter perceptions of risk?

A: At first sight, the two headlines appear very similar: “Labeling e-cigarette emissions as ‘chemicals’ or ‘aerosols’ increases the perceived risk of exposure” and “Accurate labels like ‘aerosol’ or ‘chemicals’ increase perceived risks of e-cigarette use”. The ironic thing is that while both fairly accurately reflect the study being reported, one – the one that uses the word “Accurate” – is not quite so, well... accurate.

As any chemistry teacher will tell you, everything is composed of chemicals – you are, your food is, the screen you’re reading this on is made up entirely of chemicals. Which makes the labelling of e-cig vapour as “chemicals” self-evidently true at one level, but deliberately misleading at another. (Don’t drink that water, it’s nothing but chemicals!)

As it turns out, those headlines – one from News-Medical.net, the other from Medical Xpress – are placed over identical reports (i.e. an uncritically reproduced press release) of a study published this week in the Journal of American College Health. And the very title of that study, “Aerosol, vapor, or chemicals? College student perceptions of harm from electronic cigarettes and support for a tobacco-free campus policy”, tells you at once that this is hardly unbiased science, seeking answers not yet known, but rather that sadly common form of pseudo-science that starts out with its conclusion in place and sets out to “prove” it.

The study of college students in 2018 and 2019 found – not altogether surprisingly – that those asked to assess the harmfulness of secondhand “aerosol” or “chemicals” emitted by e-cigarettes were more inclined to see them as dangerous than those who were asked to assess “vapor”.

It also found, unsurprisingly, that they were around twice as likely to support a tobacco-free campus policy. This being the US, where authority routinely seems to miss the point that e-cigarettes don’t contain tobacco, we can take that to mean a vape-free campus policy too. Which, it is not hard to assume, is exactly what the researchers wanted them to support.

The study’s conclusion is itself a masterpiece of deception (perhaps self-deception). It is this: “Health campaigns should use accurate terminology to describe e-cigarette emissions, rather than jargon that conveys lower risk.”

Just how the term “chemicals” – which, after all, encompasses every breath you take – is more “accurate” than “vapor” the authors make no attempt to explain.

Now it may be true that much research which purports to support e-cigarette use is equally tendentious, setting out with its conclusion already prepared. But to respond with such blatantly bad science is no help to anyone who really wants to discover facts as yet unknown. And there are plenty of those yet to be discovered in the field of vaping.

Oh, and the answer to the question posed above is: “Yes, of course”.
Click to expand...

This is a link to the study mentioned.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/07448481.2020.1819293  

I don't mean to offend anyone, and I kind of went on a tangent about this in the e-liquid forum when I mentioned 100% vg juice so sorry if it is repetitive, but I thought I'd mention it here. We have a vape culture here that really bothers me. The epitome of it would be this downtown craft beer bar/vape lounge full of condescending hipsters dripping. Anyone who does not drip is inferior, and when I asked if they have any vg-only eliquid as I have a hard time with pg-containing liquids, the employee told me vg-only is only for dripping (is that a pretty widely held belief? I use 100% vg in my clearo and it clogs coils up quickly but hey, I prefer the vapor). I do not drip because I have a 1 year old son and do not want bottles of liquid sitting around. Also, I am vaping as a healthier and, for me, cheaper alternative to smoking, and I get dirty looks for having an ego-style battery (vision spinner 2 is it right now, getting back into vaping after reverting to smoking for a while). It's not about the way people choose to dress, or the fact that they like craft beer, it's the fact that they are "cooler" than anyone who chooses differently. I don't think I'll ever go back into that shop because of the attitude.  

Got this from the world wide web and wanted to share it here.

Apologies if it's already been shared. It's a handy list for reference as well as informative.

E-CIGARETTE POLICY BRIEF: Seven Things Policy Makers Need to Know

All references are hyperlinked to official WHO and government reports, and peer-reviewed studies

The death toll from smoking is enormous

8 million people die every year from smoking-related diseases (WHO), including 480,000 in the USA (CDC) 1.1 billion people smoke worldwide (WHO), including 34 million in the USA (CDC) In the USA, smoking is now concentrated among low-income and LGBTQ people, people living with mental illnesses, and indigenous peoples (American Lung Association)

→ Tobacco smoking is, by far, the world’s leading cause of preventable cancer, heart and lung disease

Harm reduction can reduce that death toll

There is growing independent consensus that e-cigarettes are safer than smoking (35+ official public statements) There is strong evidence that smokers who switch to e-cigarettes have lower risk of cancer, heart & lung disease When not in tobacco smoke, nicotine itself does not cause cancer, heart or lung disease (CDC and IARC/WHO) → Other examples of harm reduction include seat belts, bicycle helmets, parachutes, methadone and condoms

Safer nicotine alternatives help smokers quit

Big pharma nicotine patches & gum (NRTs) cause neither addiction nor cancer, heart or lung disease (FDA; CDC) NRTs increase quit success from 5% (cold turkey) to 9% (on average, smokers try and fail 30 times before quitting) E-cigarettes are two times more effective than NRTs (Cochrane review of 50 peer-reviewed studies worldwide) Many adult vapers “quit by accident” with e-cigarettes (online survey); NRTs only benefit those who want to quit 92% of US all vapers are ADULTS; 4.3 million US adults have quit smoking completely with nicotine vapes (CDC) The adult cessation total may be 5.4 million because 26% of those who quit with e-cigarettes later quit vaping 2.1 million UK smokers (UK government) and 7.5 million EU smokers (Eurobarometer) have quit with e-cigarettes ‘Flavors’ are up to 2.3 times more effective for smoking cessation than tobacco flavor (Yale study) (UK study) 80% of US adult vapers prefer fruit, dessert or candy flavors that don’t remind them of smoking (FDA submission) → Forcing ex-smokers to vape tobacco flavor is like forcing recovering alcoholics to drink rum-flavored club soda

Teen vaping is undesirable, but not a crisis

In the UK, which promotes nicotine vaping for adult smokers, teen “current use” by never-smokers is just 1% US high school “current use” of vaping products dropped 29% between 2019 and March 2020 (CDC/NYTS) By March 2020, only 1 in 20 US high school students vaped daily (4.4%, but 53% of that may be THC not nicotine) US youth & young adult vaping dropped another 32% during the pandemic (JAMA survey up to November 2020) If both surveys are combined, just 1 in 10 US high school-age teens are now “current users” (13%) → If this assumption is correct, then US teen past 30-day ever-use is now lower than it was in 2015 (6 years ago)

Proposed policy “cures” are worse than the “disease”

Proposed policies to reduce teen vaping include higher taxes, ‘flavor’ bans, online sales bans and shipping bans E-cigarette taxes have caused cigarette sales to increase in 8 US states (National Bureau of Economic Research) E-cigarette taxes “increase prenatal smoking and lower smoking cessation during pregnancy” in female smokers Ecig flavor bans increased cigarette sales in San Francisco; Washington; Rhode Island; New York; and Nova Scotia Online sales and mail shipment bans reduce adult access, so are also very likely to strengthen cigarette sales → Higher taxes, ‘flavor’ bans, and online/mail bans protect big tobacco’s main cash cow: deadly cigarettes

Unintended consequences and logical inconsistencies

Probable outcome of ‘flavor’ bans: Teen vapers will switch to THC vaping or to cigarette smoking; many adult vapers will relapse to smoking; fewer smokers will quit; an illicit market (with no age-checks) will arise

The same organizations that claim teen vaping is a gateway to tobacco smoking, also claim tobacco-flavored e-cigarettes repel teens (i.e., banning ‘flavored’ nicotine vapes will reduce teen vaping)

→ Definitions differ: adult current use = daily or regular use; teen current use = past 30-day ever-use

Full context of adult products that teens use, but should not use

US teens are more likely to smoke pot or use illegal drugs than to be “current users” of e-cigarettes (NIDA MTF) US teens are 2X more likely to binge drink than vape “frequently”; 3X more likely to binge drink than vape daily US teen binge drinking causes 3,500 deaths and 119,000 ER visits/year (CDC); US policy response? Age-checks US teen “current smoking” rates dropped 3X faster than historical trends after 2012 (NIDA MTF) → Teens should not vape, smoke, drink or use cannabis (and adults should try to avoid irrational moral panics)  

So I’ve been vaping 12MG nic for a while on my Kayfun and it’s the right amount of nic to satisfy my nic needs. Only thing is at 12 mg I do still get a few harsh throat hits and I’m not sure what the best way to tackle it is.

I’m already vaping Nic salt nicotine with hi VG, suppose I’m wondering is their any super smooth eliquds in the market that mint remedy this? I’ve noticed with some eloquids at 12mg is less harsh than other liquids at 12mg. I don’t make my own liquid tho so I have no clue on how flavours may effect throat hit.

I might also drop to 10MG and vape at a slightly higher wattage which I’m yet to experiment. Any advice would be fantastic!  

I have a ton of 0 mg juice that I would like to make 3 mg Nicotine, but I don’t know where to buy nicotine, what type I need or how to mix it properly. Some of you are going to say search the forums but all the old threads I’m not interested in as things change everyday with products and techniques. That’s why I am starting a fresh post and need help in which would be greatly appreciated.

So that’s one thing I need help with.

Second thing I need help with is deciding which dripping atomizer would you recommend. I’m looking for something that’s came out recently that has good reviews. I don’t have much time to search for reviews so maybe you know what’s hot and what’s not? I know it all comes down to personal opinion and I would like your opinion please. (RDA Specifically is what I’m interested in.)

Thank you.  

the short story ......

Background and aims

Aldehydes are emitted by electronic cigarettes due to thermal decomposition of liquid components. Although elevated levels have been reported with new-generation high-power devices, it is unclear whether they are relevant to true exposure of users (vapers) because overheating produces an unpleasant taste, called a dry puff, which vapers learn to avoid. The aim was to evaluate aldehyde emissions at different power levels associated with normal and dry puff conditions.

Design
Two customizable atomizers were prepared so that one (A1) had a double wick, resulting in high liquid supply and lower chance of overheating at high power levels, while the other (A2) was a conventional setup (single wick). Experienced vapers took 4-s puffs at 6.5 watts (W), 7.5 W, 9 W and 10 W power levels with both atomizers and were asked to report whether dry puffs were generated. The atomizers were then attached to a smoking machine and aerosol was trapped.

Setting
Clinic office and analytical chemistry laboratory in Greece.

Participants
Seven experienced vapers.

Measurements
Aldehyde levels were measured in the aerosol.

Findings
All vapers identified dry puff conditions at 9 W and 10 W with A2. A1 did not lead to dry puffs at any power level. Minimal amounts of aldehydes per 10 puffs were found at all power levels with A1 (up to 11.3 µg for formaldehyde, 4.5 µg for acetaldehyde and 1.0 µg for acrolein) and at 6.5 W and 7.5 W with A2 (up to 3.7 µg for formaldehyde, 0.8 µg for acetaldehyde and 1.3 µg for acrolein). The levels were increased by 30 to 250 times in dry puff conditions (up to 344.6 µg for formaldehyde, 206.3 µg for acetaldehyde and 210.4 µg for acrolein, P < 0.001), while acetone was detected only in dry puff conditions (up to 22.5 µg).

Conclusions
Electronic cigarettes produce high levels of aldehyde only in dry puff conditions, in which the liquid overheats, causing a strong unpleasant taste that e-cigarette users detect and avoid. Under normal vaping conditions aldehyde emissions are minimal, even in new-generation high-power e-cigarettes.

Conclusion

Aldehyde emissions in EC aerosol are associated directly with dry puff conditions. In normal vaping conditions, the levels of aldehydes emissions are minimal and by far lower than the levels in tobacco cigarette smoke, despite the use of high power levels. In dry puff conditions, aldehyde emissions are significantly elevated to very high levels, but vapers are not expected to be exposed to such levels during normal EC use, even when they use new-generation high-power devices.


the long story a good read
E-cigarettes generate high levels of aldehydes only in ‘dry puff’ conditions - Farsalinos - 2015 - Addiction - Wiley Online Library  

Well, over the time all changes, even the beloved habits and hobbies, so is vaping, I do remember when I did started, a bit confused, a bit scared and with some doubts, then enjoyed a lot RDA’s, rolls, making coils and all those new things that changed out the habit… for example to switch the cigarettes pack and light on your pocket for a vape mod and maybe a juice bottle too,

so at the beginning I did used some sub-ohm tanks, then moved to RBA’s…. oh boy, the RDA’s, the coiling art and wicking, what a times on some stores, talking, vaping having great times!
Then, the need of more liquid, the hassle of dripping and there were no squonks available… so, decided to try RTA’s, oh what a wonderful land, tank capacity and dripper alike sensation, draw, flavor and vapor production..

Then… maybe a bit late, started using more mtl rta and pods, the vaping sensation changed a lot, I was maybe using 120ml per week on RTA’s and seldom a RDA, the liquid consumption reduced that much that I maybe use 10ml per day, 25max on a hard stressful day, the salt nic consumption raised when started using salts on TC mode with a RTA mtl and single battery mod,


How have your vaping habits and hobby changed, has It been affected by new devices and new trends?



Regards,  

If you’re from the United States or probably any Western country, you will know how quickly our culture can go from one extreme position to the next on just about any issue. Around 25-30 years ago, nicotine went somewhat suddenly from being a socially acceptable vice that could be done in nearly every public place by almost anyone to a highly stigmatized addiction that turned millions of smokers into second-class citizens. Unfortunately, since the most common delivery of nicotine had been through traditional cigarettes that have been lethal for so many people including both my grandfathers, the stigma behind nicotine has persisted into the era of vaping. And it doesn’t help that the practice “looks like” smoking.

However, in and of itself nicotine is not dangerous. It occurs naturally in fruits and vegetables, and does not cause lung cancer. It’s a drug, just like any substance or activity that releases dopamine in the brain. I’m personally much more concerned about the consumption of highly-caffeinated, high-sugar drinks, which are not age restricted, “flavor” restricted, and aren’t taxed to death. I’m also much more concerned about the proliferation of flavored beer and spirits in the last couple decades, which have minimal restriction on advertising and haven’t been scrutinized by the FDA to any degree comparable to JUUL or the e-cigarette industry in general. And while those substances can be very addictive, they are often encouraged in social settings, can be “enjoyed in moderation”, and aren’t considered an epidemic. Without getting too political, I’m entirely convinced that progressives would rather have 400,000 smokers continue to die each year because they didn’t switch to vaping than a new generation take up a significantly less harmful habit.  

“I’ll NOT be doing THAT again!” - the famous Taurus War Cry was heard in our house this morning!

As happens to the aged, O500 hrs this morning found me suddenly wide awake for no good reason. As usual when this happens I got up, sat in my recliner office chair, drank a pot of tea, read for a bit, and visited forums until the rest of the world came awake accompanying all that with a vape.

However that vaping ( OK chain vaping for 2-3 hours ) was done with my new Feedlink Squonk, inadvertently loaded with 18 strength liquid, fired at 4.2 volts to begin with, through a 0.6 ohm coil.

Not good. Not good at all.

Having smoked since I was very young, inhaled even pipe tobacco etc I never reckoned I could get nic sic at this late stage … but OMG suddenly I got hit with the full repertoire, the sweats, the feeling of nausea, dizziness the restlessness where I couldn’t settle but had to prowl, the racing heart etc etc.

How did I manage to do it? Carelessness coupled with the old “it’ll never happen to me” routine basically.

I had grabbed a bottle of my old 18 strength Menthol Liquid, filled the squonk bottle without looking at the juice bottle’s label and chain vaped using what is in essence a protected mech mod with a new battery on a sub ohm coil.

I’m normally a tootle puffer with 1,6 ohm coils but OMG initially at least with the squonk I enjoyed trying DTL and blowing clouds … initially!

I’m sure the rest of you reading this will have more sense than to do anything like I did this morning, but trust me - I’ll NOT be doing THAT again!  

a few little questions. I actually like dripping my 3 mg nic in max better even than vaping. I drip using 3 mg nic on a Istick 50 watt set about 23 watts with a draw of about 2.5 seconds and the coils reading says 1.6 ohms and the air holes blocked a tad on the el diablo bael. I vape on the Istick 20 watts somewhere around 7 to 8 watts on factory coil of 1.8 in a nautilaus mini
my questions: 1) does sub ohm in a rebuildable tank give flavour similar to a dripper
drippers seem to require higher watts is this in anyway suggested as less healthy ( I am not too concerned about the increased supposed formaldehyde issue I believe Dr F had issue with the research and in my opinion I probably breathe more formaldehyde off gassing wandering around carpets and insulation and pressboard)
2) the nic level is quite a bit lower in the dripper Does this actually translate to a drop in nicotine/contine levels in my blood in other words would I need to drip more to keep my nic levels somewhat reasonable re setting off " the I want a smoke brain run"
3 if I were to drip only for 3 or 4 days am I likely to find my 12 mg vape to strong

thanks for any insight you might provide